We can all agree that raising the level of professionalism in the real estate industry is a good thing – absolutely necessary, even. But how do we get there? And who’s responsible for elevating the REALTOR brand? With Bob Goldberg assuming leadership of NAR on August 1, there is much discussion around what he can do to be an agent of change in the industry.
The gloves come off today as Rob and Greg debate the validity of the NAR CEO selection process and the best way to go about ridding the industry of incompetent, unethical agents. They discuss the strengths Bob brings to the table, how his leadership may facilitate cooperation among key players, and the likelihood of substantial policy change with Bob at the helm.
Listen in as Greg and Rob get fired up arguing who’s responsible for making the REALTOR brand meaningful. It is up to NAR to raise standards and differentiate between REALTORS and licensees? Or do brokers need to be held to a higher ideal when it comes to recruiting, hiring and training agents? Whether you’re Team Rob or Team Greg on this one, Bob has his work cut out for him as he takes over NAR this month.
What’s Discussed:
Greg’s experience working with Bob through eNeighborhoods
NAR’s decision to choose someone from inside the organization
Greg’s sense of Bob as a leader
Rob’s take that hiring Bob may have been a ‘done deal’
Greg’s argument that employing a world-renowned recruiting company is ‘thorough’ as opposed to ‘clueless’
Why Rob contends that NAR should have named Bob as successor two years ago
How the NAR membership might have reacted to naming Bob as successor without selection process
How the interview process affords the opportunity for upfront conversation
Greg’s belief in the validity of the selection process
Why a succession plan is more feasible in the corporate world vs. a member-driven organization
Rob’s frustration with the lack of transparency demonstrated by NAR leadership
Greg’s assessment of how things will change with Bob at the helm of NAR
Rob’s assertion that conflict in the industry is about policy rather than tone
Rob’s skepticism re: the probability of change in NAR policy
The relationship between personnel and policy
Greg’s assertion that bureaucracy comes from the association side rather than staff
The challenges Bob faces moving forward
Greg’s position that brokers are complicit in hiring unqualified agents
Rob’s counter that agents are not employees
Why Rob finds it remarkable that any brokers institute standards
How NAR’s code of ethics runs counter to their acceptance of anyone with a license
Rob’s proposal regarding policy changes that would make the REALTOR brand meaningful
-MLS access no longer tied to membership
-Association staff allowed to take part in ethics hearings
-Remove 1099 exemption for real estate agents
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Resources:
Rob’s Response to Bill Brown’s Comment
Connect with Rob and Greg:
It’s the quiet ones you have to watch out for…
Redfin has been quietly dominating since its inception in 2004, and no one in the real estate industry seems all that concerned. We dismiss Redfin as a discount brokerage and debate what to call it – Tech company? Brokerage? Something else entirely? Whatever label you put on it, Redfin is disrupting the way real estate works. And with its S-1 filing, we can finally see just how well the company has been doing. With a sales volume of $16.2B and a 31% gross profit margin, Rob is justified in saying that Redfin has the potential to ‘eat the industry.’
Today Greg and Rob get into the impending Redfin IPO and the potential consequences of its success on traditional real estate. They cover Redfin’s phenomenal company culture and the advantages associated with having employee agents rather than independent contractors – and explain how its software has the ability to capitalize on repeat/referral business in a way that traditional brokerages do not.
Listen to understand why Rob believes that the industry should be more afraid of Redfin than Zillow, and hear Greg’s take on the relative importance of agent relationships versus company culture in shaping the consumer experience. Might there come a day when traditional brokerages would have to partner with (GASP) Zillow to compete with Redfin? As the company goes public, let’s talk about why Rob and Greg think industry leaders should start losing sleep.
What’s Discussed:
The importance of culture at Redfin
Redfin’s recent S-1 filing
-Shares in $12-14 range
-Company valued at $1B
The debate around Redfin’s identity
-Tech company
-Real estate brokerage
-Agent team hybrid
Why there is no backlash against Redfin’s IPO
Rob’s take on why the industry should be more afraid of Redfin than Zillow
How traditional brokerages throw shade at Redfin as ‘discount brokerage’
Rob’s theory that Redfin is going to ‘eat the industry’
Standout stats from the Redfin S-1
- $16.2B in sales volume, #5 in RealTrends 500
- 31% gross profit margin
How Redfin’s software capitalizes on repeat/referral business
Redfin’s focus on data
- Measures customer satisfaction via NPS
How the Redfin culture affects the consumer experience
The myth that only independent contractors can provide high-level service
Greg’s take on Redfin’s limited ‘boots on the ground’
The advantages of employee buy-in to Redfin company culture
Who might be considered Redfin’s competition
The what-if scenario around Redfin establishing a ‘sneak peek’ listing agreement
How Redfin generates traffic to its site
- SEO
- Targeted email
When the heads of large real estate companies should start losing sleep over Redfin
- Redfin offers lower commissions, agents paid based on satisfaction ratings
- Customer demand could force traditional brokerages to enact similar policies to remain competitive
How a company with a multi-brand strategy could incorporate Redfin into its business model
How traditional brokerages might need to partner with Zillow to remain competitive
How reducing costs through automation would allow brokerages to charge less for commission
The way capital acts as an accelerator in the tech world
How having employee agents allows Redfin to fully adopt its technology systems
Resources:
Redfin IPO: Tech Company, Real Estate Brokerage, or Something New?
Rob’s Redfin IPO Blog – Part 1
Connect with Rob and Greg:
If Zillow thought that the industry would thank them for reworking the Open Door model to involve agents in the process of Instant Offers, they underestimated what Rob likes to call Zillow Fever, the intense dislike so many in real estate have toward the company.
Today Rob and Greg are engaged in a rousing conversation about the rollout of the Instant Offers test program and subsequent uproar. They work through the source of the industry’s angst toward Zillow and whether or not it is warranted in this particular case.
Listen in as Rob and Greg discuss the arguments against Instant Offers, how the feature might lend itself to predatory behavior by investors, and how Zillow might have changed their messaging to avoid the blowback.
What’s Discussed:
The firestorm created by Zillow’s Instant Offers test program
Greg’s take on how a different naming convention would have tempered agent reaction
How the Instant Offers feature works
The weaknesses of the argument that Zillow is duping consumers
The hypocrisy/lack of awareness of agents criticizing Instant Offers
How agents can use Instant Offer as a tool to generate seller leads
The importance of establishing a sphere of communication
The vast number of tools available to help agents stay in touch with past clients
Instant Offers as a potential avenue for predatory investor behavior
Rob’s problem with the premise that consumers cannot make best decision for themselves based on circumstances
The potential monster success of the Instant Offers feature
The flaws in the argument that Zillow is trying to come between the agent and the homeowner
The way Zillow priorities the consumer over the agent
Whether Zillow has given up on trying to make people happy or if they were caught off guard by the negative reaction to Instant Offers
How other big web operators might respond to this innovation
Resources:
Greg Schwartz ‘We Come in Peace’
Connect with Rob and Greg:
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Just when you thought the Upstream shift might foster a new spirit of collaboration in the real estate industry, the guns were drawn again with NAR CEO Dale Stinton’s combative rhetoric, as NAR approved an additional $9 million in funding for the scaled back version of Upstream at the Realtors Legislative Meetings in D.C.
Today Rob and Greg talk about the fallout from the Upstream announcement and subsequent doubling down by Stinton at the board meeting that followed. As always, our illustrious hosts each have a unique take on the motives of NAR and how Upstream’s CEO might approach his role moving forward.
Listen in as they discuss the ambiguity around the project now that Upstream will allow brokers to enter their listings into their MLSs and how the change in tactics will affect particular industry players. Click to learn how the antagonistic framing of the big announcement further divided the vendors and MLSs from the brokerages, when it might have been an opportunity to mend fences.
What’s Discussed:
The three-part Upstream bombshell (dropped at NAR’s Midyear)
Rob’s theory re: the motivation for Upstream
NAR and Upstream’s missed opportunity to generate a spirit of collaboration
The purchase of ListHub as an alternative to Upstream
How eliminating a single point of entry makes Upstream a simple listing syndication dashboard
The industry skepticism around Upstream’s transparency and NAR’s motives
Why Upstream is a top priority for brokerages
How Upstream’s messaging has evolved over time
Why Zillow is feared by brokerages, MLSs and associations
Zillow’s capability to provide a data management solution
The inflammatory language used by the NAR CEO Dale Stinton (e.g.: vendors and MLSs as ‘cartel’)
The ambiguity of Upstream moving forward
The Upstream pivot as a win for Zillow
Why Zillow may have purchased Bridge Interactive
How Upstream drove MLSs into the arms of Zillow
The likelihood of a continued alliance between Zillow and MLSs to fight NAR
How Upstream CEO Alex Lange might approach his role moving forward
Post-pivot licensing issues for Upstream
Resources:
‘NAR Bets on Upstream with Additional $9M in Funding’ by Andrea Brambila
Connect with Rob and Greg:
If you ask Wiktionary, to swim upstream means ‘to opt for a difficult course of action when a simpler alternative is available.’ And if you ask Rob and Greg, real estate’s Upstream venture is a prime example of doing things the hard way.
Today Rob and Greg discuss the MLS response to the brokerage community’s push for data sharing and the probability of Upstream’s success. They also cover other hot topics in real estate technology news, including Zillow’s new Millennial consumer brand announcement, the extraordinary capital raised by Placester, and Realogy’s recent changes in management.
Listen in as Greg explains how to think about the ‘real estate ecosystem,’ and Rob outlines the inevitable development of a new brokerage model.
What’s Discussed:
Zillow’s recent announcement regarding its launch of new consumer brand
Why Zillow is likely adding RealEstate.com as a search portal
The real estate industry’s ‘Millennial worship’
The stereotypes associated with Millennials vs. the reality
What a site designed for Millennials might look like
The staggering capital being poured into the industry
Placester’s recognition of the aspirational nature of real estate
Why Zillow focuses on ‘super agents’ and teams
Placester’s role in the ‘real estate ecosystem’
Realogy’s recent changes in management
How technology undermines the idea of a ‘real estate ecosystem’
The necessity for transformation of the current brokerage model
The mammoth undertaking that is Upstream
The feasibility of Upstream clearing all the hurdles it faces
How MLSs have responded to the brokerage community’s call for consolidation
Rob’s suggestion to add representatives from the broker community to the CMLS Board
Resources:
“Zillow Group to Launch New Consumer Brand” on RISMedia
“Placester Continues Growth with $50 Million Capital Raise” in HousingWire Magazine
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Industry Relations EP007
Greg Fischer Takes Us Back to the Future with NYC Brokers vs. Zillow
We’re feeling a little déjà vu at Industry Relations as controversy brews between Zillow and brokers in NYC. Everything old is new again with the launch of the premier agent feature on leading real estate marketplace StreetEasy. For the last ten years, agents across the country have dealt with syndication – and it seems New York real estate’s time has come.
Today’s guest, Greg Fischer, serves as principal broker at Fred Real Estate Group in Bend, Oregon, and author of the blog Next in Housing. His unique background also includes work in the tech industry with real estate software companies Move, Inc. in San Francisco and Doorsteps in New York City. This makes him uniquely qualified to discuss the bruhaha as NYC brokers decide whether to pay the Zillow tax or boycott it.
**Audio alert. Robertson's audio track has an echo effect that we couldn't get rid of in post. But Fischer and Rob audio (which handle the majority of the discussion) sounds great.***
What’s Discussed:
How NYC brokers reacted to the premier agent feature on StreetEasy
How StreetEasy GM Susan Daimler justified the change
The explicit language used by the StreetEasy product to suggest a buyer agent
Why NYC should seek the counsel of brokerages around the country who have dealt with syndication
How Manhattan real estate does business differently
REBNY’s request for an investigation into the legality of advertising an exclusive listing
The potential to create an MLS in NYC
The differences among IDX, VOW and StreetEasy’s premier agent
The danger of dual agency
Fischer’s take on leads generated via third-party websites
The evolution of Zillow’s playbook on generating revenue
Why brokerages need to get savvy on how ad tech works
The value of agents as local experts
Compass CEO Robert Reffkin’s concession to Zillow
Resources:
Greg Fischer’s Premier Agent Blog Post
The Real Deal’s Premier Agent Article
The Real Deal’s Premier Agent Video
Connect with Greg Fischer:
This is an odd one. Rob and Greg are back, and this time they are debating an unusual strategy real estate coaches and trainers might employ to establish credibility – using the techniques of the pickup artist community.
In researching the dating habits and family formation of millennials (for work – no, really!), Rob happened upon a company called Real Social Dynamics, the world’s largest dating coaching company. Among their promotional materials are YouTube videos called ‘infields’ in which their coaches demonstrate the company’s techniques for attracting women in real situations at parties and nightclubs.
This got Rob to thinking, “Why don’t we do that in real estate?” On this episode of the podcast, Rob and Greg explore the feasibility of real estate trainers generating similar footage to market their services.
What’s Discussed:
How infield footage lends credibility to the trainer
The legality and ethics of filming interactions with clients
How Hear It Direct sought to give professionals an understanding of the consumer point of view
Why data (# of transactions) may not be enough to establish a coach’s authority
The significance of training as a key value proposition for every association
The aspects of an agent’s work that could benefit from infields
Resources:
Real Social Dynamics YouTube Channel
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob and Greg are back with yet another spirited debate. This time they explore whether fiduciary duty extends to listing on Zillow. With Zillow’s current dominance, Rob argues that to provide maximum exposure for your seller client, listing on the platform is a must.
Rob and Greg get into the perception of Zillow as a threat as well as the issue of buyer agency. Listen and decide whether the responsibility to act in the client’s best interest means that a realtor is obligated to list on Zillow.
What’s Discussed:
The current dominance of Zillow
Rob’s argument that fiduciary duty requires listing on Zillow
The potential for lawsuits if agents don’t use Zillow
How the internet has changed the value proposition of the MLS from an advertising standpoint
Why the perception of Zillow as a threat is flawed
The core complaints against Zillow
Resources:
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob and Greg return with some news from north of the border and a discussion regarding what the real estate industry in the states might learn from recent regulations imposed in British Columbia.
Rob explains the dysfunction in the Vancouver housing market that led to disreputable behavior on the part of some realtors and the public outcry that followed. He and Greg also debate the likelihood of something similar happening here in the US. Listen in to understand the parallels between the systems in Canada and the US and how leadership in the industry could prevent an analogous government intervention here.
What’s Discussed:
The similarities between the Canadian and US systems
The Trump administration’s position on regulation
Why regulations are more likely to be imposed on a state (rather than federal) level
The impetus behind the public outcry in British Columbia
Why the standard form contract clause allowing a buyer to assign the contract to someone else without seller approval was added initially
How price fluctuations in the Vancouver market led to the practice of shadow flipping
Why government intervention is rarely precision reform
How British Columbia changed the way the regulatory body works
The steep fines agents and brokerages face if found in violation
The likelihood of a similar phenomenon happening in the US
How the real estate industry could maintain its privilege to self-regulate
Resources:
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob and Greg return with reinforcements this episode for a round table discussion regarding the
#NARGirlBoss movement and its implications about the necessity of a culture change in the industry. They are joined by Sunny Lake, David Charron and Andrea Bushnell, each of whom have a unique take on the NAR CEO selection process.
Lake is the founder of the #NARGirlBoss Movement, a campaign aimed to help realtors choose the NAR’s next CEO in a transparent, collaborative process by raising awareness of accomplished women leaders in the industry. She has 13 years of experience in real estate, most recently serving as Principal Managing Broker of Coldwell Banker Bain|Seal in Bellingham, Washington. Lake is currently Managing Broker of eXp Realty.
David Charron is the Chief Strategy Officer of Bright MLS, Inc. and President at MRIS Investors in the Washington DC Metro Area. He has an extensive background in real estate, information systems and internet business solutions. Charron has been an industry leader for many years and was the first recipient of the Peter Shuttleworth MLS Executive Award of Excellence. In 2016, he was named by Inman News to the Inman 101 for driving industry change. He has been a key voice in the conversation around the evolving role of the MLS and a proponent of innovative tools, partnerships and business practices.
Andrea Bushnell is the CEO of the North Carolina Association of Realtors, where she has served since 2010. After earning a degree in law from Lewis & Clark Law School in 1988, she was a partner with the firm Burt, Vetterlein and Bushnell for several years before becoming the Director of Business and Legal Affairs for Rentrak. Bushnell spent 13-plus years at the helm of the Oregon Association of Realtors before making the move to North Carolina. In 2016, she received the prestigious William R. Magel Award of Excellence, awarded annually by the NAR to an association executive who has truly excelled.
Listen in as these industry leaders discuss the intentions of the #NARGirlBoss movement, the nominating committee’s approach to hiring a new CEO and the need for a culture change in the real estate industry.
What’s Discussed:
The intention of the #NARGirlBoss movement
Women in NAR leadership roles
The nominating committee’s approach to hiring a new CEO
The pressure on NAR to consider capable, competent women for the CEO position
The general sense of distrust of the NAR and resulting grass roots movement
Why a culture change is necessary in the industry
Bushnell’s experience as first female CEO of the North Carolina Association of Realtors
Lake’s effort to shine a light on up-and-coming female leaders who aren’t acknowledged
Resources:
Connect with Lake, Charron & Bushnell:
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Rob and Greg are back with another outspoken discussion about current real estate industry topics. This time on the podcast they attempt to predict how the new POTUS might affect the state of real estate – and how difficult it is to predict what Trump and his administration might do. They cover the evolution of HUD under Ben Carson and his promise to cap or eliminate the mortgage-interest deduction.
Rob and Greg also address the powerful lobby that is the NAR and who might fill the shoes of CEO. Listen in to understand how the ‘Trumpening’ presents a particular challenge for the new leadership of NAR as organized real estate approaches a crossroads.
What’s Discussed:
The choice of Ben Carson as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
How a real estate developer in the Oval Office might be good for housing
The affordability crisis in the housing market
The unpredictability of Trump and his cabinet
The lobbying muscle of the NAR
The best argument Greg has heard for getting rid of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the mortgage-interest deduction
Who might succeed Dale Stinton as CEO of NAR
The big challenges of organized real estate that the new NAR CEO must address
The role of personal relationships between the lobby and career bureaucrats
Resources:
Andreesen Horowitz’s Fintech Podcast
Connect with Rob and Greg:
Welcome to the inaugural episode of Industry Relations, recorded live from Inman Connect NYC. Join Robert Hahn, Managing Partner of real estate consulting firm 7DS Associates, and Greg Robertson, Co-Founder of real estate software company W+R Studios, as they engage in frank discussions about current real estate industry topics.
This time on the podcast, Rob and Greg debate the state of the MLS, the problematic relationship between the MLS and associations, and potential systemic changes. Listen in as these industry insiders argue the critical obstacles facing the MLS – unfiltered.
What’s Discussed:
Rob and Greg’s take on the problems with the current MLS system
The dichotomy between low fees and great products and services
The need to identify and address the MLS’s that don’t follow the rules
Why MLS execs deserve much credit for the tough work they do in furthering cooperation and compensation
How associations might evolve if divorced from governance of the MLS
The role of politics in local MLS boards
Upstream’s potential to create chaos in the real estate data marketplace
How emerging leaders in MLS might feel about changing to a for-profit model
The broker narrative regarding the role of the MLS
Resources:
Connect with Rob and Greg: