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Industry Relations

This is Industry Relations, a podcast that is at the intersection of real estate and technology from an insider’s perspective. Hosted weekly by Rob Hahn (The Notorious ROB) and Greg Robertson.
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Now displaying: 2020
Dec 17, 2020

The November 2020 DOJ-NAR settlement requires that buyer’s agent commissions are apparent to consumers. But that transparency is just a first step in a push to divorce real estate commissions entirely. Should the other DOJ lawsuits succeed, home buyers will negotiate buy-side commissions directly with the buyer’s agent. So, what happens if the disruptors calling for these changes (like Jack Ryan) get their way?

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg discuss Sam DeBord’s passionate Tweetstorm in response to their recent interview with Jack Ryan of REX, clarifying the arguments made by both Jack and Sam and considering how transparency around buyer’s agent commissions is likely to reduce the population of agent-facilitators and drive market share to the true realtor-counselors in the space.

Rob and Greg describe how a rule ending cooperation and compensation would impact the industry long-term, exploring a possible transition from a buyer’s commission to a flat fee or hourly model. Listen in for insight into the questions industry disruptors raise with regard to the role of the MLS, the brokerage, and the agent in the absence of cooperation and compensation.

What’s Discussed: 

 

Lone Wolf’s acquisition of W+R Studios and how Greg & Dan are sharing $1M of the proceeds with their team

Sam DeBord’s passionate Tweetstorm in response to our interview with Jack Ryan of REX

What makes a real estate agent a facilitator vs. a counselor

How transparency around buyer’s agent commissions could significantly reduce the agent population

How Jack Ryan’s background in politics and high finance informs the way he thinks about making real estate better for consumers

How the end of cooperative compensation is likely to disrupt real estate referral networks

The opportunity for vendors to help buyer’s agents demonstrate their value

Why Rob thinks there could be a transition from buyer’s agent commissions to a flat fee or hourly model

What agents and brokers might do to take advantage of the required disclosure of buyer’s agent commissions

The questions Jack Ryan’s line of attack raises re: the value prop of the MLS or the real estate brokerage in the absence of cooperation and compensation

 

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

 

Resources:

 

Lone Wolf Technologies

Lone Wolf’s Acquisition of W+R Studios

Greg’s Post on the Lone Wolf Acquisition

Sam DeBord on Twitter

Sam DeBord’s Tweetstorm on Jack Ryan

Jack Ryan on Industry Relations EP055

Spencer Rascoff & Austin Allision on Industry Relations EP056

HousingWire’s Acquisition of REAL Trends

Jeff Corbett’s Post on Divorcing Real Estate Commissions

The NAR-DOJ Agreement on MLS Rules

Buyside

Biden’s Proposed First-Time Home Buyer Tax Credit

 

Our Sponsors: 

 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Dec 9, 2020

What happens when real estate tech royalty get together to brainstorm business ideas? Not surprisingly, a general discussion of underutilized assets lends itself to a new proptech venture. 

Spencer Rascoff (former CEO of Zillow) and Austin Allison (co-founder of dotloop) are the Cofounders of Pacaso, a startup working to democratize access to second homeownership. On this episode of the podcast, real estate tech OGs Spencer and Austin join Rob and Greg to discuss how Pacaso solves the problem around the underutilization of second homes and explain how consumers, agents, and brokers alike benefit from the service.

Spencer and Austin describe how Pacaso manages scheduling and dispute resolution, sharing what differentiates their product from a timeshare or the traditional DIY co-ownership model. Listen in for Spencer and Austin’s insight on current events in the industry, including the radical acceleration of tech adoption through COVID, the long-term impact of the DOJ lawsuit against NAR, and CoStar CEO Andy Florance’s attack on Zillow.

What’s Discussed:  

How Pacaso solves the problem around underutilization of second homes

How consumers, agents, and brokers benefit from Pacaso

What differentiates Pacaso from a timeshare

How Pacaso handles scheduling and what happens if one owner uses the home much more than the others

Why Spencer & Austin don’t see Airbnb as competition

How Pacaso manages dispute resolution and governance of a property

Why friction among owners is less likely with Pacaso vs. the DIY model

Spencer & Austin’s response to the idea that Pacaso is ‘rich people solving rich people problems’

How COVID has inspired a demand for co-ownership in city centers

How the digitization of real estate has accelerated through the pandemic and what that means for the industry

Why buyer side representation will not go away (despite the DOJ lawsuit)

Andy Florance’s attack on Zillow and how CoStar’s acquisition of Homesnap will impact residential real estate

Connect with Spencer & Austin:

Pacaso

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

dot.LA

Zillow’s Q2 2020 Earnings Call

Jack Ryan on Industry Relations EP055

CoStar’s Acquisition of Homesnap

Brad Inman’s Interview with Andy Florance

The FTC Suit to Block CoStar’s Acquisition of RentPath

Tomo

Our Sponsors: 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Dec 4, 2020

It has come to light in recent days that REX was the ‘power behind the throne’ in the Department of Justice’s lawsuit against NAR (and subsequent settlement). The suit alleged that the trade group’s rules on commissions artificially inflate the fees paid to real estate agents and put illegal restraints on competition in the market. So, what inspired the upstart firm to take its concerns to the DOJ?

 

Jack Ryan is the Cofounder and CEO of REX, the digital alternative to the residential real estate agent. REX uses big data and AI to provide consumers with a significant cost savings and an improved customer experience. On this episode of the Industry Relations, Jack joins Rob and Greg to explain why REX went to the Department of Justice and address the perception that his team is hostile to organized real estate.

 

Jack offers his take on why a commissions drop is not bad news, describing his libertarian vision of the future of real estate and how all involved would benefit—including MLSs, brokers, agents, consumers and communities. Listen in for Jack’s insight on eliminating the friction from the home buying process and find out what would have to change for REX to join the MLS.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

Why REX went to the DOJ with NAR’s ‘illegal restraints’ on competition in the market

What differentiates REX from other residential real estate brokerages

What’s behind REX’s decision not to join the MLS

Eliminating repetitive, standardized activities to make the real estate transaction more efficient

What the REX workflow looks like from a buyer’s perspective

Why Jack is more concerned with changing the system than making money

Jack’s argument that a commissions drop is not bad news

How Jack thinks about eliminating the friction from buying and selling a home

How a seller benefits from working with REX in terms of cost savings and level of service

The perception that REX is hostile to organized real estate and what would have to change for Jack to join the MLS

Jack’s libertarian vision around the future of real estate

How REX’s AI continues to improve and Jack’s intent to make the tech available to other brokers and agents

 

Connect with Jack:

REX

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources: 

Rob’s Piece on REX and the DOJ

Video of Jack on Vendor Alley

Jack’s Article on Real Clear

NAR Code of Ethics

Our Sponsors: 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Nov 2, 2020

We are days away from the most important election of our time. Will Trump win reelection? Or will Biden take office? What factors influence the way people are voting? And how will the real estate industry be affected either way?

On this episode of the podcast, Rob and Greg are sharing their predictions around who will win the upcoming presidential election, discussing how the handling of the pandemic is likely to influence voting and whether Americans will choose a candidate based on self-interest versus moral integrity.

Rob and Greg reflect on the last four years in terms of the economy in general and real estate specifically, debating whether a modern leader should (or even could) inspire and unite us AND get things done. Listen in for insight on separating Trump’s behavior from what he has accomplished as President and learn how our hosts think about getting the US back to a place of normal political discourse.

 

What’s Discussed: 

Rob and Greg’s predictions regarding who will win the presidential election

Choosing a candidate based on self-interest vs. moral integrity

How the handling of the pandemic might influence voting

Whether the governor or President should have more influence over the states

Greg’s call for a leader that can inspire and unite us rather than stoke the fires of division

Rob’s take that it’s less important that a leader be an inspiring orator and more important that they get things done

Separating Trump’s behavior from what he has accomplished as President

How the last four years have been good for the economy in general and real estate specifically

Whether the Democrats will accept Trump as the legitimate President

Getting the US back to a place of normal political discourse

 

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources: 

What’s the Matter with Kansas: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America Back by Thomas Frank

Termination of 2015 AFFH Rule

 

Our Sponsors: 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Oct 30, 2020

Realtors are tasked with helping families make the biggest financial decision of their lives. To that end, NAR wants to preserve the idea of a realtor as an intelligent professional. And when an agent engages in conduct unbecoming of a realtor (like posting racial slurs on social media, having sex in an empty listing, or threatening the life of a broker who takes a job at Zillow), the association can and should protect the realtor brand and let that agent go.

 

On this episode of the podcast, Rob and Greg are discussing the series of speech code proposals made by the NAR Professional Standards Committee to prevent realtors from discriminating against the protected classes and using harassing or hate speech, epithets or slurs in both their personal and professional lives.

 

Rob and Greg go on to explore the problems with the committee’s proposal, explaining why it’s difficult to define what qualifies as harassing or hate speech and how the rules don’t address other kinds of unprofessional behavior. Listen in for insight on how a Conduct Unbecoming Clause would work as an alternative to protect the realtor brand from behavior that is ‘disgraceful, unprofessional and unbecoming’ of an agent.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

An overview of the series of proposals made by the NAR Professional Standards Committee

--Policy Statement 29 applies NAR Code of Ethics to conduct outside of real estate

--Standard of Practice 10-5 prohibits harassing/hate speech, epithets or slurs of protected classes

--Definition of ‘public trust’ expanded to include all discrimination against protected classes

The problems Rob sees with the committee’s proposal

--Difficult to define what qualifies as harassing or hate speech

--Leaves out threats, harassment of unprotected classes

--Many conservative realtors feel targeted by changes

The benefits of Rob’s alternative Conduct Unbecoming Clause

How the history of race in America informs the way NAR is approaching the proposed changes

The value in protecting the realtor brand from conduct that is disgraceful, unprofessional and unbecoming of an agent

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

 

NAR’s Proposed Speech Code Regulations

Rob’s Post on the Proposed Speech Code Regs

The NAR Professional Standards Committee

‘NAR Proposes Ethics Changes to Crack Down on Social Media Harassment’ in Inman

‘NAR’s Proposed Ethics Changes Miss the Mark’ in Inman

Raise the Bar in Real Estate Facebook Group

Canadian Real Estate Association

CREA’s Conduct Unbecoming Clause

Rob’s Post on the Reputation of Realtors

Racism in Real Estate on Industry Relations EP052

 

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

 

Oct 19, 2020

**** NOTICE:  We recorded this pod using Zoom audio but had a few technical issues. The audio quality wasn’t great and at some point, Zoom stopped recording all together.  We were able to piece together a good episode but not the whole conversation.  I’m super bummed, but we all agreed, even if its not the full conversation, it’s still something we wanted to put out there. ****

 

Systemic racism has its roots in housing. Government policies deliberately disadvantaged Black and Brown people, and that’s led to segregated communities, educational inequalities and a substantial wealth gap. So, what can we do as an industry to address these disparities and better serve ALL of our clients?

 

On this episode of Industry Relations, Emily Chenevert, CEO of the Austin Board of Realtors, and Kenya Burrell-VanWormer, SVP of Diversity Solutions at T3 Sixty, join Rob and Greg to discuss the history of race discrimination in real estate, explaining how practices like redlining have stunted the Black community’s capacity to build generational wealth and why industry organizations need to recognize and publicly denounce the racism of the past.

 

Emily and Kenya share how the industry has improved, describing NAR’s shift to prioritize diversity and inclusion and exploring what organized real estate might do to further educate association members around equity moving forward. Listen in for insight on tackling home ownership disparities and learn what is (and what isn’t) our responsibility to do as an industry to address racial inequality in America.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

The history of race discrimination in real estate (i.e.: redlining, racist land use patterns)

How racism around housing has stunted the Black community’s ability to build generational wealth

The government’s role in creating a wealth gap in the US

Why organizations like NAREB exist independently from NAR

Greg’s call for industry organizations to recognize and denounce the racism of the past (and what that might look like)

The shift from diversity and inclusion as an afterthought to a need within NAR

How we might educate association members around issues of equity

The lack of diversity among the leadership in real estate associations and MLSs

Why 25 of the 26 agents caught steering on Long Island are still working

Kenya’s insight on tackling home ownership disparity by way of education, opportunity and resources

Emily’s experience with difficult conversations on race as Austin overhauls its land development code

What it’s our responsibility to do as an industry to address racial inequality (and what’s not in our lane)

 

Connect with Emily:

 

Austin Board of Realtors

Emily on LinkedIn

Scratch That Podcast

 

Connect with Kenya:

 

T3 Sixty

Kenya on LinkedIn

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

 

Michelle Mills Clement

The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America by Richard Rothstein

How the GI Bill’s Promise Was Denied to a Million Black WWII Veterans’ in History

Discrimination in Levittown

National Association of Real Estate Brokers

Richard Rothstein

Eddie S. Glaude Jr.

NAR Leadership Summit 2020

Bob Goldberg

The Chicago Association of Realtors’ Apology & Recommitment to Fair Housing

The Newsday Investigation on Steering

Fair Housing Act

  1. Ryan Gorman

HAR Diversity and Inclusion Task Force

Austin’s Land Development Code Revision

NAR’s Code of Ethics

 

Our Sponsors:

 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

 

Sep 30, 2020

Zillow started out as a listing portal or syndication site. But the company has evolved to become… Well, we’re actually not sure what to call it anymore. Perhaps ‘the Amazon of real estate’ is most appropriate. And on September 23, 2020, the company announced that it’s hiring employee-agents to streamline the iBuyer process. So, if Zillow is a brokerage now, what does that mean for the industry?

 

On this episode of the podcast, Rob and Greg are discussing Zillow’s decision to take its iBuyer operations in-house and how that move will impact other aspects of organized real estate. Our hosts explore how MLSs might respond to having Zillow as members and describe how access to MLS data could change the consumer experience on the Zillow site.

 

Rob and Greg go on to consider the impact of Zillow being part of NAR and state and local associations, weighing in on how their participation can be seen as a win for the industry. Listen in for insight on how Zillow’s announcement demonstrates their commitment to becoming an iBuyer-brokerage and learn how Zillow entering the system might lead to an improvement for everyone—or a ‘horror show.’

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

The evolution of listing portals into brokerage and iBuyer hybrid models

How Rob and Greg define brokerages differently

Zillow’s decision to use employee-agents to bring its iBuyer operations in-house

How MLSs are likely to respond to having Zillow as members

Rob’s theory on how Zillow might reposition its Industry Relations team

The potential impact of Zillow being part of NAR as well as state and local associations

How to access to MLS IDX data and VOW rules could transform the consumer experience on Zillow

The leverage Zillow has in getting information from smaller MLSs

What makes Zillow’s shift a WIN for humans (and organized real estate)

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

Opendoor vs. Zillow on Industry Relations EP050

Greg’s Blog Post on BPP

Rob’s Blog Post on Zillow

Stop Zillow Campaign

Greg on Twitter

CLAW’s Delay to Syndication Feeds

REALTOR Political Action Committee

NAR’s Rules on Virtual Office Website

The 2008 DOJ-NAR Settlement Agreement

‘It’s a Good Life’ Episode of Twilight Zone

‘A Trifecta! NAR Sued Again Over Buyer-Broker Commissions’ in The Real Deal

Thomas Jefferson’s Quote on Change in Laws and Institutions

Collateral Analytics

Greg’s Blog Post on Zillow

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

 

Sep 23, 2020

Opendoor recently announced a merger with special purpose acquisition company (or SPAC) Social Capital, a venture fund headed by rockstar VC Chamath Palihapitiya. This partnership puts the pioneering iBuyer on the same playing field with Zillow. And the battle between the two will be epic.

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are discussing what the competition between Opendoor and Zillow means for consumers, real estate agents, and the industry in general. Rob explains Zillow’s advantages in terms of customer acquisition and monetizing seller leads, and Greg describes Opendoor’s leverage when it comes to operational excellence (otherwise known as ‘eating BPS for breakfast’).

 

Rob and Greg go on to consider how Opendoor might catch up with Zillow when it comes to lead flow, either through an additional acquisition or by working with the industry. Listen in for insight around how this battle of the market-makers will make it easier to buy and sell houses and lower transaction costs—and how that will impact the real estate industry as a whole.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

The benefits of a merger between Social Capital and Opendoor

What competition between Opendoor and Zillow means for consumers

Zillow’s advantage in terms of consumer audience and monetizing seller leads

Opendoor’s advantage when it comes to operational excellence

Rob’s prediction that Social Capital might also acquire either Redfin or Realtor.com

How Opendoor might work with the industry to generate lead flow

How competition between Opendoor and Zillow is likely to impact real estate as a whole

--Easier to buy and sell houses (mobility)

--Much lower transaction costs

How MLSs might change if transactions double while commissions are cut in half

Greg’s take on why it’s a great time to be a real estate agent

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Email gregrobertson@gmail.com

 

Resources:

 

‘Yelp: Nearly 16,000 Restaurants Have Permanently Closed Due to COVID’ in QSR

Social Capital

The Social Dilemma

Opendoor’s Merger with Social Capital

Rob’s 2014 Blog Post on Opendoor

iBuyer Connect

Stratechery’s Interview with Rich Barton

Social Capital’s 2019 Investor Letter

SimilarWeb

Opendoor’s September 2020 Investor Presentation

Rob’s Thought Experiment on Real Estate Agents & Productivity

The Art of the CMA by Greg Robertson

 

Our Sponsors:

 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

 

Jul 24, 2020

For every tech platform that sets out to disrupt real estate, there’s a story of slow evolution to working with brokers and agents. And while companies like Zillow, Opendoor, and Offerpad have brought about minor changes to the home buying process, they always end up morphing into our traditional system. Why is it that these so-called disruptors just can’t change the way we do real estate?

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are exploring why would-be disruptors have such a hard time changing real estate. Greg walks us through his five-stages-of-grief analogy around how tech platforms always end up working with brokers and agents, and Rob compares real estate with the auto industry, reflecting on how little buying processes have changed despite advancements in technology.

 

Rob and Greg go on to introduce the idea that the human connection is what prevents tech disruptors from succeeding in our industry, speculating that agent teams have been the biggest disruptor in real estate in recent years. Listen in for insight on how human knowledge and connection factor into making tech platforms successful and learn why the human need for approval is not disruptable.

What’s Discussed: 

Rob’s take on the two possible reasons why disruptors have trouble in real estate

--System has been perfected over time

--Entrenched infrastructure (need billions to play)

Greg’s five-stages-of-grief analogy re: how disruptors end up working with agents

The similarities and differences between real estate and the auto industry

--Way we buy + sell changed little in spite of technology

--Remember dealership but not broker (agents ≠ employees)

How technology has expanded consumer knowledge around price, inventory, etc.

Greg’s insight that real estate tech disruptors struggle because they lack human connection

Why agent teams have been the biggest disruptor in real estate in recent years

How Zillow has evolved its Zestimate algorithm to include human knowledge

Why Rob believes that our human need for approval is not disruptable

What makes Zillow the most likely platform to cause true disruption in real estate

The Tom Ferry study around top agents living paycheck to paycheck

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

Rob’s Blog on Innovation in Real Estate

TrueCar’s No-Haggle Price

Notorious ROB on Facebook

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

 

Jun 29, 2020

Long-distance relationships are never easy. And if you’re part of the traveling circus that is the real estate conference circuit, you may be struggling to keep your professional relationships going in a virtual environment. Would being an orc help?

 

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are discussing the current pause in the real estate conference and trade show circuit and mourning the loss of chance meetings that don’t happen in a virtual environment. They explore why massively multiplayer online games (MMOs) like World of Warcraft work to create community and how real estate might replicate that always-on culture until the conference circuit comes back.

 

Rob and Greg go on to cover the challenge of sustaining long-distance relationships in an online world, explaining why we just can’t duplicate face-to-face interaction at virtual events. Listen in for insight on how going virtual is impacting MLSs, associations, and vendors and learn about the possibility for a 2020 MLS Proptech Symposium (which Rob wants to rename to the “2020 MLS Herd Symposium”) that would help sponsors make decisions about the feasibility of their own fiscal events.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

The current halt to the real estate conference/trade show circuit

What Greg covers in his forthcoming book, The Art of the CMA

The chance meetings that don’t happen in a virtual environment

Why we can’t duplicate face-to-face interaction through virtual events

The challenge of sustaining long-distance business/personal relationships

Why MMO games work to create community + how real estate might replicate that always-on culture

When the real estate conference circuit will come back

The impact of going virtual for MLS and association communities

--Increased engagement and attendance

--Eliminates serendipity of networking

How new vendors might build trust in the absence of in-person interaction

What we can do to gauge circuit response to physical events

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

 

CMLS 2020

RESO 2020 Fall Conference

Inman Connect 2020

2020 NAR Realtors Conference and Expo

Cover Art Choices for Greg’s Book

Charles Warnock

VirBELA

Second Life

EverQuest

Asheron’s Call

MMORPG

World of Warcraft

Roblox

Overwatch

Discord

Dungeons and Dragons Online

ARMLS

GoToMeeting

Greg’s Draft Agenda for the 2020 MLS Proptech Symposium (with Rob's edits)

 

Our Sponsors:

 

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

 

May 28, 2020

The Coronavirus forced many of us to work from home, leveraging technology to do our jobs remotely. Not only has this made us more comfortable with digital tools, it has us rethinking the need to commute to our offices on a daily basis. So, what do these changes mean for the real estate industry?

On this episode, Errol Samuelson, Chief Industry Development Officer at Zillow, joins Rob and Greg to share his top predictions around the post-pandemic future of real estate. He explores how commercial real estate is likely to change in light of COVID-19 and speaks to the potential to make transactions 100% digital moving forward.

Errol weighs in on how different geographies experienced the pandemic in different ways and how he thinks about the crisis’ potential long-term psychological impact. Listen in as Errol shares Zillow’s most recent stats on the changing consumer preferences for homes and learn how our growing comfort with virtualization will impact the way brokers and agents do business in the future.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

Errol’s top predictions re: the post-pandemic future of real estate

How commercial real estate will change in light of COVID-19

The potential to make real estate transactions 100% digital

The accelerated consumer use of digital tools in the home search process

How Errol thinks about the possibility of virtual appraisals

How virtualization is likely to impact brokers and agents

Zillow’s stats on how working from home is shifting consumer preferences

How cities may look different in a post-pandemic world

The possibility for COVID-19 to have a long-term psychological impact

How different geographies experienced this pandemic in different ways

What sci-fi technology is likely to change real estate in the near future

How Zoom is driving changes in the way we communicate

Connect with Errol:

Errol on Zillow

@ErrolSamuelson

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

Dotloop’s 8 Predictions About the Post-Pandemic Future of Real Estate

The New York Times Article on Working from Home

CMLS Events

Books by Nassim Nicholas Taleb

The Atlantic Piece on the ‘Patchwork Pandemic’

Glenn Kelman’s Diary of a Pandemic Part 1

Glenn Kelman’s Diary of a Pandemic Part 2

Glenn Kelman’s Diary of a Pandemic Part 3

Cloud CMA Live

 

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

May 11, 2020

Last week, Rob & Greg imagined what the future of real estate might look like in the aftermath of the pandemic, pending a best-case scenario. Today, they get real about what’s ahead for the industry given the reality of our current circumstances. And they’re bringing on a number of industry stakeholders to offer their outlook as well.

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are leading a group chat around what’s next for real estate as the Coronavirus pandemic plays out. The group offers predictions on how the MLS landscape may change, debating whether it’s the number of MLSs or the number of MLS databases that really matters and offering examples of hybrid solutions that may serve as a model for the future.

Greg and Rob go on to solicit the group’s thoughts on the potential shape of the recovery curve and the possibility of a shift to a buyer’s market in 2021. Finally, they explain why an increase in property taxes is likely in the aftermath of the COVID-19 bailout and how that might impact buyer demand in the real estate market. Listen in for insight on Open House numbers in states where stay-at-home orders have been lifted and learn how those stats might be a good sign for other industries.

What’s Discussed: 

A review of what Rob & Greg covered in their best-case discussion

Greg, Clint Skutchan, & John’s predictions re: the number of MLSs by 2023

Why the consolidation of data is more important than the total number of MLSs

Tim Dain’s vision of a future with ten or fewer MLS databases that talk to each other

How the pandemic demonstrates the industry’s underutilization of telecommunication

Why Georgia is watching the commercial market for clues re: the future of residential

Georgia’s concept of a J-shaped recovery

Why Joshua Lopour is predicting a buyer’s market in 2021

Why Greg expects a best-case scenario uptick in buyer demand

Why property taxes are likely to increase and how that might impact buyer demand

The significant uptick in Open Houses scheduled in states where stay-at-home orders have been lifted

How Open House numbers may be a good sign for other industries

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources: 

MLS Grid

MLS Aligned

Northstar MLS CDP

MetroList

Great Recession + COVID-19 Bailout Comparison

ShowingTime Showing Activity Statistics

 

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Apr 15, 2020

Imagine a best-case scenario in which the Coronavirus is under control and the country is up and running by May 1. How have our social norms changed? What do these cultural shifts mean for organized real estate? And how is the industry different in a post-COVID-19 world?

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg get relentlessly positive, discussing the post-Coronavirus landscape of the real estate industry should the best happen. They weigh in on the cultural shifts that are likely to occur in the aftermath of COVID-19, predicting which rituals will persist once the current restrictions have been lifted.

Greg and Rob go on to debate what open houses will look like in a post-pandemic world, why showings may (or may not) be restricted to serious buyers, and when we might be back to pre-COVID transaction levels. Listen in for our hosts’ best-case expectations regarding buyer demand as well as NAR membership and brokerage numbers come September—pending a V-shaped recovery. 

What’s Discussed: 

Rob & Greg’s parameters for this potential best-case scenario

  • Vaccine or cure for virus (no resurgence)
  • All restrictions lifted, back to work on 5/1

How the culture is likely to shift in the aftermath of COVID-19

What open houses will look like in a post-Coronavirus world

Why Rob believes showings will be restricted to serious buyers

When we might be back to pre-pandemic transaction levels

Why Greg expects a best-case scenario uptick in buyer demand

Rob’s prediction of a 20% drop in first-time homebuyers

Why Rob & Greg anticipate a 20% decline in NAR membership

How Rob & Greg differ around which agents will leave

The potential for 25% of small brokerages to join a larger team

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

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Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Apr 10, 2020

On the surface, the government’s effort to support homeowners through forbearance is a good thing. Many Americans have lost their jobs because of the Coronavirus pandemic and simply don’t have the resources to make a mortgage payment right now. But what does this mean for the servicing industry? Why are lenders concerned about the unintended consequences of Washington’s response? 

 

On this episode of Industry Relations, mortgage banking expert Rob Chrisman joins Rob and Greg to discuss what’s happening in the capital markets as a result of the Coronavirus shutdown. He walks us through how a mortgage functions as a product, explaining the relationship between the servicer and the end investor in a mortgage-backed security or MBS.

 

Rob C. addresses how government forbearance for borrowers will impact big banks as well as smaller, independent lenders and weighs in on Ginnie Mae’s promise to back nonbank servicers lacking the capital to pay investors. Listen in to understand how the Federal Reserve’s activity in the MBS market affects mortgage servicers and learn why the lending system is not broken despite the changes imposed by the health crisis.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

Rob C.’s background in mortgage banking + understanding of capital markets

How a mortgage functions as a product manufactured and sold to a buyer

The relationship between a mortgage servicer and the end investor

How government forbearance due to COVID-19 impacts mortgage servicers

Ginnie Mae’s promise to back nonbank servicers lacking capital to pay investors

How current circumstances compare to the 2008 recession

The tens of billions of servicers will owe in margin calls due to the MBS price increase

The consequences of the Federal Reserve’s activity in the MBS market

Why the non-QM and jumbo loan markets are on life support

Why Rob C. is predicting a V-shaped recovery for residential lending

How underwriting guidelines have changed in light of the global shutdown

Why property values are unlikely to take a dive across the board

 

Connect with Rob Chrisman: 

Rob’s Daily Mortgage & News Commentary

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Our Sponsors:

Cloud Agent Suite

Notorious VIP

Mar 16, 2020

No one in the real estate industry planned for a global pandemic to hit in 2020. So, what does a black swan event like the Coronavirus mean for agents, brokerages, associations, MLSs and vendors? How does the potential economic effect of COVID-19 parallel the virus itself?

 

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are discussing the short- and long-term impact the Coronavirus is likely to have on the real estate industry. They explain how fear and uncertainty might hurt the housing market over the next several months and explore the opportunity the pandemic presents for models like Redfin and Opendoor as well as investors with deep pockets.

 

Greg and Rob go on to consider how the cancellation of real estate conferences will cause a domino effect through many other industries and which brokerages, agents and vendors won’t be able to survive this kind of pause in business. Listen in for insight on the serious flaws in our economic system exposed by the health crisis and learn how embracing a little of the prepper mentality can help us respond and adjust to a black swan event like the Coronavirus.

 

What’s Discussed: 

The short-term impact Coronavirus might have on the housing market

  • Buyers take wait-and-see approach
  • Retreat of first-time homebuyers

The potential opportunity for models like Redfin and Opendoor

How investors are likely to take advantage of low-interest rates

The cancellation of real estate events and its domino effect through other industries

How the economic fallout of the Coronavirus parallels the virus itself

The brokerages, agents and vendors who may not survive a pause in business

How the pandemic exposes flaws in our economic and healthcare systems

Rob’s insight around manufacturing necessities here in the US

The pros and cons of having the world’s reserve currency

Embracing the prepper mentality to survive unforeseen circumstances

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

Rob’s Post on COVID-19

President Trump’s March 11 Address

Nassim Nicholas Taleb

The Black Swan: The Impact of the Highly Improbable by Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Antifragile: Things That Gain from Disorder by Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

The Notorious VIP

Feb 28, 2020

What does organized real estate look like in 2030? Who is winning?

Incumbent brokerages are betting on the recruit-and-retain model that has worked for the last several decades, doubling down on the agent’s sphere as their primary source of leads. Disruptors are betting on a world where the agent matters less than the brand itself, where realtors are only responsible for service delivery and leads are generated entirely through the institution’s online platform. Who is your money on?

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are discussing the themes that came up at Inman’s CEO Connect and the confidence incumbent brokerages have in their ability to outlast market disruptors. They cover the advantages incumbents boast in terms of scale and profitability, exploring whether industry giants are truly all-in on technology and the iBuyer models—or if they’re adding those initiatives simply to overcome agent objections.

Greg and Rob go on to consider a potential decline in the number of agents by the end of this decade and explain why agent teams continue to pose the greatest threat to brokerages. Listen in for insight around how key players in other industries have leveraged the power of incumbency to compete with disruptors and place your bet on either the agent-centric incumbent brokerages OR the institution-focused disruptors.

What’s Discussed: 

The advantages incumbent brokerages have in terms of scale + profitability

Adopting new tech as a marketing ploy to bolster a brokerage’s value prop to agents

Why many brokerages chose to partner with rather than acquire iBuyers

Why successful brokerages can do everything right and still lose market leadership

How key players in the automotive industry have leveraged the power of incumbency

The fundamental difference between real estate incumbents and disruptors

  • Agent-centric, focused on recruiting/retention vs. institution-centric
  • Agents as lead source vs. service delivery only

How the future of real estate will continue to be dominated by agent teams

Why the number of agents is likely to drop to 400K by the end of the decade

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

Inman Connect

The Innovator’s Dilemma: The Revolutionary Book That Will Change the Way You Do Business by Clayton M. Christensen

The Straight Pipes on YouTube

John Campbell on The Notorious Interview


Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

Notorious VIP

Feb 28, 2020

At present, MLSs are run like nonprofits. And without a way to raise capital, industry executives limit their vision based on the resources at hand. But what if there were no constraints? What kind of Big Hairy Audacious Goals could MLSs pursue with funding from deep-pocketed venture investors?

In this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are challenging MLS execs to consider what they would do differently with access to significant capital. Greg weighs in on the discussions around implementing the MLS Statement 8.0 Clear Cooperation Policy (otherwise known as Ocho) that took place at Inman Connect, describing how the differences among individual MLSs will inform its implementation.

Greg and Rob go on to discuss how the challenges associated with switching MLS vendors benefit incumbents and why most MLSs adopt a system of choice approach to consolidation. Listen in for Rob’s take on how MLS execs constrain their vision based on the resources available and take up Greg’s challenge to think about what you would do differently with $5M, $50M or even $500M.

 

What’s Discussed: 

The discussion regarding how to implement the Clear Cooperation Policy at Inman Connect

How Ocho impacts Compass’ strategy for differentiating its listings

How the differences among MLS Coming Soon policies will inform Ocho’s implementation

The possibilities for interpretation around what qualifies as marketing

How the challenges associated with switching vendors benefit incumbent MLSs

What’s behind the system of choice approach adopted by most MLSs

Why Rob contends that MLS execs constrain their vision based on resources

NAR as a trade organization vs. the MLS as a tech product + service provider

Greg’s challenge for MLS execs to consider what they would do with access to capital 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website 

Resources:

Inman Connect

MLS Statement 8.0 Clear Cooperation Policy

Homesnap Pro’s Predictive Analytics

Rob’s Post on the Clear Cooperation Policy

Rob’s Post on the Fundamental Problems in Real Estate

Business Insider Top 15 Real Estate Podcasts

 

Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

Notorious VIP

 

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