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Industry Relations with Rob Hahn and Greg Robertson

Rob Hahn a.k.a. The Notorious R.O.B. and Greg Robertson discuss organized real estate in a disorganized manner.
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Now displaying: 2019
Dec 20, 2019

On January 1, 2010, organized real estate was still reeling from the recession. Dale Stinton was steering the ship at NAR. Zillow was seen as the enemy of the MLS. Real estate software was meh. Agent teams were rare. Nearly all brokerages took a split. Selling your house online seemed outrageous. And we still signed documents in pen.

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are looking back at the last 10 years in real estate. They discuss the passing NAR’s MLS Statement 8.0 Clear Cooperation Policy, debating the significance of the office exclusives loophole and how it might lead to government involvement. Our hosts also express their disappointment around the Newsday investigation in Long Island, Testing the Divide, challenging brokerage leadership to make a strong statement against the egregious racism it uncovered. 

Greg and Rob go on to share their top 10 defining moments and trends with the biggest impact on the industry over the last decade, describing how the rise of agent teams, 100% commission brokerages, the iBuyer model and consolidation have transformed organized real estate. Listen in for insight into how NAR’s decision to fund RPR and Upstream changed the way the MLS saw Zillow and explore how the space has evolved from 2010 through the end of 2019.

What’s Discussed: 

NAR’s passing of the MLS Statement 8.0 Clear Cooperation Policy

Rob & Greg’s take on the Newsday investigation in Long Island

How the loophole in 8.0 could lead to government involvement

The 10 defining trends/events in the last decade of real estate

  1. The end of poorly designed software
  2. The rise and domination of agent teams
  3. The transition in leadership at NAR
  4. Opendoor pioneering the iBuyer model
  5. Zillow’s acquisition of Trulia
  6. 100% commission brokerages
  7. Consolidation and the influx of capital
  8. The practice of buying agents/agent teams
  9. The mainstreaming of digital signatures
  10. NAR’s decision to fund RPR + Upstream

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Resources:

MLS Clear Cooperation Policy

Compass Pre-Litigation Letter to Bright MLS

Bright’s Response to Compass

Newsday Documentary: Testing the Divide

Rob’s Blog on the Newsday Piece

1000watt Article on Real Estate Software

The Millionaire Real Estate Agent by Gary Keller with Dave Jenks and Jay Papasan

Ben Thompson Interview with Rich Barton

Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

The Red Dot

Oct 9, 2019

 

It’s our CMLS Conference Pre-Show Podcast!  In an effort to curb the rampant growth of Coming Soon listings, NAR’s Multiple Listing Issues and Policies Committee has issued a proposal to clarify the Clear Cooperation Policy. But will the guidelines actually put an end to pocket listings? Are the rules a good compromise? Or should the MLS die on the hill of all-or-nothing, requiring members to list there first?

 

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg discuss NAR’s draft MLS Policy Statement 8.0, exploring whether the guidelines go far enough in preventing exclusive listings. Rob explains why the 24-hour submission window and the concession around office exclusives are a problem, arguing that the MLS must take a stand NOW to establish itself as the primary marketplace for property listings.

 

Greg challenges Rob’s view that the MLS is not already the primary marketplace, applauding the 24-hour window as a reasonable and clever compromise and arguing that pocket listings are a breach of fiduciary duty. Listen in to understand Rob’s proposal to extend the all-in IDX rules to MLS membership as a whole and consider how Policy Statement 8.0 will (or will not) impact the pocket listing strategies employed by large national brokerages.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

Rob’s take that NAR MLS Policy 8.0 doesn’t go far enough

  • 24-hour submission window
  • Office exclusives not prohibited

Whether the MLS is the marketplace or a data repository

The potential confusion around one-to-one communication

What does and does not qualify as marketing under 8.0

Greg’s view of the 24-hour window as a clever compromise

How Rob defines a primary marketplace as first-in-time

Greg’s challenge that 70% of deals qualifies as ‘primary’

Why Greg sees pocket listings as a code of ethics issue

Extending IDX all-in rules to MLS membership as a whole

How exclusive listings benefit large national brokerages

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

 

CMLS Annual Conference

NAR MLS Policy 8.0

MLS Technology and Emerging Issues Advisory Board

Rob’s Post on MLS Policy Statement 8.0

Sam Debord’s Response to Rob’s Post

Rob’s Follow Up Post on MLS Policy Statement 8.0

NAR 2019 Home Buyers and Sellers Generational Trends Report

2019 Zillow Group Consumer Housing Trends Report

 

Our Sponsors:

 

Cloud MLX

The Red Dot

 

Oct 2, 2019

Tremors, in and of themselves, cause minimal damage. But sometimes those tremors are the precursor to something a whole lot bigger. Organized real estate is ripe with these little shakeups, and whether you’re a brokerage, franchiser, vendor, portal or agent, the Tinder-ization of everything WILL impact your business. It’s already changing the way we generate leads and may very well eliminate outbound marketing as a viable option.

 

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg discuss a few of the current tremors making waves in organized real estate, starting with the new FCC rule allowing mobile carriers to block unknown callers. They explain how the iOS 13 update might impact lead generation and why inbound and content marketing will become crucial in light of these changes.

 

Rob goes on to explore how the death of outbound marketing could make agent teams that much more important and challenges the idea that agents working with teams qualify as independent contractors under California Assembly Bill 5. Listen in for Greg’s insight around how high agent turnover impacts the way SaaS vendors do business and learn why nimbleness and brand recognition are key to survival in the real estate space.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

The new FCC rule allowing mobile carriers to block unknown callers

How the iOS 13 update will impact lead generation in real estate

Greg’s insight around the value of inbound + content marketing

How the death of outbound marketing will make agent teams even more important

The distinction between independent contracts and employees in California AB-5

Rob’s argument that team leads qualify as employers under AB-5

How 30% agent churn impacts the way real estate vendors do business

Why SaaS companies in real estate must focus on customer experience

The idea that every day is Day One in establishing brand recognition

Why being nimble is the key to survival in the real estate industry

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

 

CMLS Annual Conference

GVLAR MLS Tech Forum

Reimagine! 2019 Los Angeles

REALTORS with Guns Facebook Group

Rob’s Interview with Chris Drayer

Greg’s Post on Telesales

FCC Rule on Blocking Unknown Callers

California Assembly Bill 5

Chris Drayer’s Post on the Death of Lead Gen

CallAction’s Post on iOS 13

 

Our Sponsors:

 

Cloud MLX

The Red Dot

 

Jul 15, 2019

Fight! Fight! Fight!

We’ve always been told that people love it when Rob and Greg argue.  If that true, then we have one of the best Industry Relations Show ever!

With Inman Connect Las Vegas on the horizon, Rob and Greg are facing off over the trend toward exclusive listings and the new Redfin-Opendoor partnership. What does the development of in-house listing programs mean for the industry? And how will the joint venture with Opendoor impact RedfinNow? Our intrepid hosts have very different answers to these questions.

On this episode of Industry Relations, Rob and Greg are discussing the impact of systematic coming soon listings. Rob makes the argument that widespread adoption will take down the MLS, moving residential real estate to the commercial model. Greg makes the case that pocket listings are nothing new and challenges the idea that the MLS will become a ‘dumping ground’ for properties that haven’t sold privately.

Rob and Greg also weigh in on the new partnership between Redfin and Opendoor. Listen in for Greg’s insight around why the collaboration is a genius move that benefits both parties and learn why Rob sees it as a huge concession on Redfin’s part—a concession that will eliminate their own iBuyer operations in each and every Opendoor market.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

What Rob & Greg are looking forward to most at Inman Connect

Greg’s criticism of Rob’s recent posts on RealScout’s Buyer Graph

Rob’s argument that coming soon programs will take down the MLS

Greg’s counter that exclusive listings are not a new phenomenon

How residential real estate may be moving to a commercial model

Greg’s take on the brilliance of the Redfin & Opendoor partnership

How the new partnership with Opendoor will impact RedfinNow

Rob’s view of the partnership as a concession on the part of Redfin

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

 

Resources:

 

Inman Connect

Notorious R.O.B. Blog

RealScout Buyer Graph

HAR YPN

Howard Hanna Find It First

Top Agent Network

Redfin & Opendoor Partnership

RedfinNow

Offerpad

 

Our Sponsors:

Boost Summit

Notorious V.I.P.

Jun 21, 2019

Traditional brokerages got 99 problems. They’ve got to compete with iBuyers. They’ve got to compete with 100% commission models. They’ve got to innovate new products and services. They’ve got to figure out a way to make money off those products and services. And they’ve got to worry about potential industry regulations and the insane amount of capital flowing in to would-be disruptors. So, what can brokerages do to address the fundamental flaws in the traditional model—and survive the next five years?

 

Today, Rob and Greg are discussing the top issues traditional brokerages face and what they can do about it. They address the implications around Compass’ renewed focus on product and Wall Street analyst John Campbell’s comments regarding the tipping point Realogy and other traditional brokerages face.

 

Rob and Greg weigh in on the fact that brokerages LOSE money on top producers and the challenge of monetizing products and services for agents. Listen in for insight around the future of traditional models like that of Realogy and RE/MAX and learn how agents and brokerages might adapt to the disruptions facing the real estate industry.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

The public interest argument for representing the buyer’s side

The implications around Compass’ renewed focus on product

John Campbell’s comments on the tipping point Realogy faces

The issues around productivity in a traditional brokerage model

Why brokers need to make money through products + services

How brokerage iBuyer initiatives are really listing lead programs

Why Upstream doesn’t address the problems brokers face now

The fundamental flaws in the traditional brokerage model

The future of Realogy, RE/MAX, Redfin, eXp and Home Services

What agents might do in a world with 60% iBuyer market share

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

 

Scratch That Podcast

Gradually … Then, Suddenly! Podcast

The Tom Ferry Podcast Experience

Nick Kremydas on Twitter

Glenn Kelman on Scratch That EP010

‘Is a Compass IPO Coming Soon?’ in Inman

John Campbell’s Comments in MarketWatch

Inman Connect

UpstreamRE

The DOJ’s Scrutiny of Cooperating Compensation on IR EP035

Rob’s Future of Brokerage Black Paper

 

 

Jun 10, 2019

Industry Relations has just been nominated by Inman News Innovator award under the INNOVATIVE VIDEO/PODCAST SHOW category!  Thanks for everyone’s support!

And now on with the show....

When Moehrl v. NAR was introduced in March, the industry response was largely… meh. Then in April, the Department of Justice reached out to the top MLS platform vendor, requiring documents and testimony about MLS data—with a specific focus on cooperating compensation. What is the DOJ likely to find? How might this information impact the class action suit? And what does it all mean for the real estate industry as a whole?

 

Today, Rob and Greg are discussing the Civil Investigative Demand (CID) CoreLogic recently received from the DOJ. They address the possibility of getting compensation data in the absence of a search feature on the MLS and predict whether the DOJ will find buyer-steering to be a widespread phenomenon. 

 

Rob offers his take on why a directive requiring the disclosure of sold information would be more likely than new regulations, and Greg speculates that the industry is unlikely to stand by while the government eliminates cooperating compensation. Listen in to understand how the plaintiff attorneys in Moehrl v. NAR might use the DOJ’s findings and learn why organized real estate needs to take the lawsuit seriously.

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

The Civil Investigative Demand CoreLogic received from the DOJ

Getting compensation data without a feature search on the MLS

What a DOJ study demonstrating buyer steering might achieve

Why disclosure of sold info is more likely than new regulations

How many brokers + agents script for the commission question

How DOJ findings might be used by attorneys in Moehrl v. NAR

How the Canadian Competition Bureau handled this issue

The potential impact of eliminating cooperating compensation

How it could take up to 10 years to resolve the class action case

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

 

Rob’s Website 

Greg’s Website 

 

Resources:

 

Rob’s Post on CoreLogic & the DOJ

Rob’s 2015 Post on the NBER Study

Randy Ora’s Live Listing Presentation 

Rob’s Post on the Brookings Institute Panel

Competition Bureau of Canada Resolution

Inman Coast to Coast Facebook Group

May 15, 2019

Rob and Greg have often said that Redfin is the most important tech-centric brokerage that no one is talking about. Well, that is about to change with the company’s unveiling of Redfin Direct, a service allowing consumers to buy properties without representation. What’s behind Glenn Kelman’s move to give customers another ‘layer of choice’? And how might the real estate industry respond?

Today, Rob and Greg are discussing the big players who spoke at the T3 Summit, from Rich Barton to Gary Keller to John Peyton. They describe the pervasive nature of brokerages talking strategically about competing with iBuyers and tech as well as the buzz around Art Carter’s call for a new type of organizational structure around the MLS.

 

Greg speaks to the way ‘GFK’ won the room at T3 with his humor and authenticity, and Rob asks about the impetus behind Redfin Direct and how the industry might respond. Listen in for insight around how the program puts Redfin on the radar in a way it hasn’t been before and learn how Redfin Direct might work in conjunction with Redfin Now and the brokerage’s title and mortgage programs.

What’s Discussed: 

Greg’s insight on the big players who spoke at the T3 Summit

Art Carter’s call for a new type of MLS organizational structure

The pervasive nature of brokerages addressing iBuyers + tech

How Glenn Kelman ‘won the room’ with his authenticity at T3

The stark contrast between Redfin and Compass’ mission

Greg’s take on Redfin Direct + the potential industry response

The impetus behind Redfin Direct and how it was announced

How Redfin Direct supports its title + mortgage programs

How Redfin Direct puts the company on the industry’s radar

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Email gregrobertson@gmail.com

 

Resources:

 

Mike Simonsen, Rob Hahn & Gahlord Dewald Talk Millennials

The T3 Summit

Redfin’s Q1 Earnings Release

Glenn Kelman on Listing Bits EP045

Bill Wendel on Twitter

‘Redfin Direct Offers’ on Bubble Info

Greg’s Blog on Redfin Direct

Andrea Riquier’s Interview with Rob on MarketWatch

 

Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

The Red Dot

 

May 15, 2019

Rob and Greg have often said that Redfin is the most important tech-centric brokerage that no one is talking about. Well, that is about to change with the company’s unveiling of Redfin Direct, a service allowing consumers to buy properties without representation. What’s behind Glenn Kelman’s move to give customers another ‘layer of choice’? And how might the real estate industry respond?

Today, Rob and Greg are discussing the big players who spoke at the T3 Summit, from Rich Barton to Gary Keller to John Peyton. They describe the pervasive nature of brokerages talking strategically about competing with iBuyers and tech as well as the buzz around Art Carter’s call for a new type of organizational structure around the MLS.

 

Greg speaks to the way ‘GFK’ won the room at T3 with his humor and authenticity, and Rob asks about the impetus behind Redfin Direct and how the industry might respond. Listen in for insight around how the program puts Redfin on the radar in a way it hasn’t been before and learn how Redfin Direct might work in conjunction with Redfin Now and the brokerage’s title and mortgage programs.

What’s Discussed: 

Greg’s insight on the big players who spoke at the T3 Summit

Art Carter’s call for a new type of MLS organizational structure

The pervasive nature of brokerages addressing iBuyers + tech

How Glenn Kelman ‘won the room’ with his authenticity at T3

The stark contrast between Redfin and Compass’ mission

Greg’s take on Redfin Direct + the potential industry response

The impetus behind Redfin Direct and how it was announced

How Redfin Direct supports its title + mortgage programs

How Redfin Direct puts the company on the industry’s radar

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Email gregrobertson@gmail.com

 

Resources:

 

Mike Simonsen, Rob Hahn & Gahlord Dewald Talk Millennials

The T3 Summit

Redfin’s Q1 Earnings Release

Glenn Kelman on Listing Bits EP045

Bill Wendel on Twitter

‘Redfin Direct Offers’ on Bubble Info

Greg’s Blog on Redfin Direct

Andrea Riquier’s Interview with Rob on MarketWatch

 

Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

The Red Dot

 

Mar 14, 2019

 

To this point, we assumed that the iBuyer model would target homeowners willing to pay for convenience and that the average consumer would continue to employ a real estate agent—and earn more money for their patience. But Zillow’s Q4 numbers reflect that homeowners can actually make MORE selling to the platform than they would with a realtor. So, how does this information impact the potential market share of iBuyers moving forward? And how will it affect the way agents do business?

Today, Rob and Greg are discussing the change in leadership at Zillow, debating the company’s performance under Spencer Rascoff and Richard Barton’s motivation to return as CEO. They explore the possibility of a merger between Opendoor and Zillow, uniting the former’s mastery of workflow with the latter’s proficiency at lead flow.

Rob and Greg also speak to Redfin’s potential to adopt the iBuyer model and the way of thinking shared by Redfin and Opendoor. Listen in to understand the full implications of Zillow’s Q4 iBuyer unit economics learn how the iBuyer market may impact the industry in light of this new information. 

 

What’s Discussed: 

 

Barton’s motivation to return to Zillow as CEO

Zillow’s performance under Rascoff’s leadership

Opendoor’s complementary mastery of workflow

Zillow’s hiring of Arik Prawer to run iBuyer operations

The shared philosophy between Redfin and Opendoor

The implications of Zillow’s Q4 iBuyer unit economics  

How iBuyer unit economics may impact realtors

 

Connect with Rob and Greg: 

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

Zillow’s 2018 Q4 Results

‘Homeowners Net More Selling to Zillow Than with a REALTOR’ in Notorious ROB

‘Spencer Rascoff Out as CEO of Zillow’ in Vendor Alley

Mike DelPrete’s Presentation at Inman Connect

 

Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

The Red Dot

Mar 10, 2019

Gary Keller made a series of very bold claims when he announced the launch of the new KW tech platform at January’s Family Reunion conference, even going so far as to say that ‘the race to build the first end-to-end real estate platform is over and everyone else is competing for second place.’

Today, Rob and Greg are discussing Keller’s comments, questioning the decision to set the bar so high and sharing Brian Boero’s take on Keller’s hubris as that of a master showman rallying the troops. Rob asks how we might measure the success of the KW tech platform and how much big-time investments in tech truly impact agent productivity.

Rob and Greg also explore the idea that introducing new tech serves to ‘stop the bleeding,’ keeping agents and agent teams from leaving for tech centric brokerages like eXp. Listen in for insight around the performance of traditional brokerages that put big money in tech and learn why Rob believes the industry should stop fighting the last war and shift its focus to capital.

 

What’s Discussed: 

The hype around the launch of the Keller Williams consumer app

Boero’s take that Keller’s hubris is necessary to ‘rally the troops’

How we might measure the success of the KW tech platform

The dismal numbers reported in Realogy’s recent earnings call

How much tech investments truly impact realtor productivity

Why Rob believes the industry needs to focus on capital vs. tech

KW’s potential to systematize agent marketing through software

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

Email gregrobertson@gmail.com

 

Resources:

2019 Clareity MLS Executive Workshop

‘Gary, Put Down the Bong’ in Vendor Alley

‘Gary Keller Declares Victory in Real Estate Tech Platform Race’ in Inman

‘Keller Kabuki’ in 1000watt

‘Please Stop Fighting the Last War’ in Notorious ROB

 

Our Sponsors:

Cloud MLX

The Red Dot

Feb 10, 2019

At Inman Connect, the top movers and shakers in real estate come together to learn about the latest technology and explore what’s next for the industry. And in 2019, the hot topics include disruptors like Compass and eXp, the impact of data aggregators on the MLS, and the relevance of franchisers in light of tech centric startup brokerages. So, what are the most interesting conversations happening at the conference this year? And what SHOULD we be talking about?

 

Today, Rob and Greg are sharing the highlights of Inman & CEO Connect (live from the lobby of the Marriott Marquis), discussing how the conference focuses on the intersection of real estate and technology and what predictions Inman has gotten right over the years. They speak to Brad Inman’s interview with Rob Reffkin, Ben Kinney’s talk knocking brands like Compass and eXp, and the conversation among brokers, franchisers and tech company CEOs regarding the MLS. Rob asks why no one is talking about Redfin, and Greg predicts when the industry will recognize it as a significant force.

 

Then Rob and Greg snag Sam DeBord, Managing Broker and VP of Strategic Growth for Coldwell Banker Danforth in Seattle, to get his take on Kinney’s advice to brokers and the research around stock options and franchise loyalty. Listen in to understand why franchises need to make their value offerings more obvious and easy to use—and learn why Greg believes the mortgage space is ripe for disruption.

 

What’s Discussed: 

The highlights of the Inman Connect conference in NYC

How technology has (and has not) impacted real estate

Brad Inman’s interview with Rob Reffkin at CEO Connect

  • Leak of Pacific Union acquisition
  • Concerns re: data aggregators

Ben Kinney’s criticisms of brands like Compass and eXp

When the industry will recognize Redfin as a significant force

The talk among brokers and tech CEOs around the MLS

The tech community’s struggle re: cooperation and compensation

How Inman called the rise of the iBuyer model

Kinney’s advice to brokers on prepping agents for a market shift

Sam’s insight on the research around stock options and loyalty

Why franchises need to make value offerings easy to use

Why the mortgage space is ripe for disruption

 

Connect with Sam:

Sam at Seattle Home

 

Connect with Rob and Greg:

Rob’s Website

Greg’s Website

 

Resources:

Inman Connect 2019

The Ben Kinney Team

Redfin Commercial

MIPIM PropTech

Greg’s Post on HouseCanary

HouseCanary

When Software Eats the Real (Estate) World

Steve Murray Real Trends Research

Divvy

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